A note from your Shadowy Webmaster: Long-time Shadowy Web contributor Sean Plaisted interviewed Derek von Essen via email back in April of 2003. Derek was the band's photographer and roadie. To see some of his work, you can check out Derek's picture page on the Shadowy Web or his web site.

SEAN:
What was your connection with the Shadowy Men? And, for how long?

DEREK:
I started photographing them in 1986 as a project to document the underground Toronto music scene. They needed pics, I needed a portfolio, we became friends over time. I went to EVERY show of theirs [among many] from '86 til I moved to BC in '92. Then I'd only see them as a roadie for tours or on visits back home.

SEAN:
Did you ever handle the equipment? How did they feel about you carrying their precious instruments? :-)

DEREK:
Yes I did all the drum setup / breakdown and hauled Reid and Brian's stuff too. But I never took out their guitars… only they could do that. Everyone moreorless pitched in. They worked hard on the road and were very considerate to those around them. I was very protective of them and their equipment. I felt responsible for it.

SEAN:
When's the last time you've seen the guys?

DEREK:
Reid and Brian was a few years ago on my last visit to Toronto. Don and I still chat long-distance and visit when either are in town.

SEAN:
Do you think they would have got back together if Reid hadn't died?

DEREK:
Probably not. They each moved on. Brian somewhat stayed in the same vein of music. Reid spent much of his time as a visual artist. He was devoted to both but visual art held his attention quite a bit. And Don is forever being innovative in his approach to new music.

SEAN:
How did the guys treat you?

DEREK:
They treated me swell… like a friend would treat a friend.

SEAN:
When you say they sometimes clashed, how so? Do you mean arguments?

DEREK:
Yeah, everyone argues. When confined in a small space for extensive periods, you tend to step on others toes and it becomes an irritable thing. They never fought much and when it happened it wasn't much to talk about. Don't forget they had a lot of history together. Especially Reid and Brian go waaaaaaay back 20-25 years.

SEAN:
How did you guys travel from city to city?

DEREK:
A van.

SEAN:
How did you pass time in the van?

DEREK:
What did we do in the van for all those long hours? Brian LOVED to drive, Reid wrote a book, Don listened to headphones and read and I bought a Gameboy to annoy the hell out of them.

SEAN:
Did you guys listen to a lot of music in the van or in the hotels? What kind of music did the S Men like to listen to?

DEREK:
Don always listened to the most progressive music, always something we'd never heard of before. Reid loved a lot of trashy old punk rock and 70's stadium rock anthems [though he'd have my head if he heard me say that] and Brian wanted NOTHING but oldies from the 50s and 60s.

SEAN:
That's odd. Wouldn't you think a guy who plays surf/punk music would listen to or like that kind of music?!

DEREK:
Well Sean, ya get to a certain age and ya feel like you've heard it all so new things are far more attractive. By now you should be sick of "Louie Louie"… image hearing that everyday till yer in yer midlife! It hurts! But in regards to Don, its almost like he didn't have to listen to punk rock anymore… he IS punk rock even though he doesnt play it.

SEAN:
What did you guys do to pass the time in a city when they weren't playing?

DEREK:
While on tour with them I realised how many people they really know and corresponded with. EVERY city had old friends or folks they'd met before coming to the shows. Even a few people who travelled to a few cities to see them play. A lot of musicians respected them, along with a throng of guitar geeks who'd swarm Brian after every show. His guitars are quite special [I don't play so I can't be more specific than "special"].

SEAN:
What kind of places did they play in when they did live shows?

DEREK:
Small dark clubs in Toronto. Local bands never get the attention they deserve until they prove themselves somewhere else, heh. Through the States we played at anywhere from 100 seats in Columbus, Ohio to 1200 capacity halls in Austin, TX. Detroit and Minneapolis were popular too. New Orleans was a dud though even if we had a great time. I was exhausted the night off we had there and slept instead. I later found out Brian and Don were out with the Fleshtones [we were on tour with them] and they all ended up at a bar jamming with Michael Stipe and Peter Buck from R.E.M. plus some others, I forget now. I was choked… didn't miss going out whenever I had the chance after that.

SEAN:
How many shows did they do a month?

DEREK:
In their heyday of '85-'90 they played ALL the time in Toronto and surrounding areas. A few times a week wasn't unheard of. Once they started touring it wasn't as frequent at home. But our touring schedule was great. About 5-6 shows a week for usually about a month at a time. No one wanted to be on the road longer than that.

SEAN:
Wow. That's a lot of shows! Did they ever get tired of playing the same old songs again and again? What did they do to keep it fresh?

DEREK:
They probably tired of "Having An Average Weekend." It's such an old song that became very popular about 6-7 yrs after it was written. Keeping fresh? Play it faster.

SEAN:
What's the biggest crowd they drew when you were with them? And, were they usually the featured band or a warm-up?

DEREK:
In Toronto, they had some great opening slots for some great shows: Ramones, Feelies, Hoodoo Gurus, Hüsker Dü, and tons more I'm forgetting right now. Those were all to about a 1000 folks. On tour some they headlined some they didn't. The one with the Fleshtones, S Men opened. About 1200 in Austin, TX wouldve been the largest on that tour.

SEAN:
Did the set list vary much from night to night?

DEREK:
Different list every night. They had a lot of material to pick from, so they took advantage of it by shuffling it around… thankfully. I get bored with repitition but I had a good time EVERY tourstop.

SEAN:
How much material was from their albums and records? How much was never released?

DEREK:
I think they recorded almost everything but I was never part of the creative process. There's a bunch that were never released. In their last years, the medley "16 Encores" grew by the month with new parts added at their whim.

SEAN:
Was Brian kind of a quiet guy? He seems quiet.

DEREK:
The last thing Brian ever wanted to do was speak into a microphone.

SEAN:
How about away from the microphone? Was he a quiet guy in general?

DEREK:
Brian was generally pretty quiet, but not in the way where you'd think he was ignoring you. He's very attentive when in conversation. But next to all of us in the van, he'd be the Silent One [in black].

SEAN:
What's the deal with the little guy they have on all their records? I understand Brian drew him. Did he make him up?

DEREK:
Brian was a working graphic artist at the time so he had innumerable drawings, doodles and things. He did all their posters with pen and ink. Even the letters I got from him were all written to me in the same text as the album jackets.

SEAN:
Did Brian switch guitars in the middle of the set? As you said, he had a lot to choose from.

DEREK:
Only if he broke a string would he switch. When he was nervous about playing large halls on elevated stages he'd seem to bust a string in the first song… heh. But he usually brought 2-3 on a given tour, although like I said he has a collection of vintage guitars. It's dangerous and uncomfortable to bring ALL your prize possessions in one van. Break-ins are not uncommon.

SEAN:
Did you have any break-ins?

DEREK:
Attempt in Detroit and lost everything in San Francisco once.

SEAN:
What happened? What do you mean attempt? Did Don clock the guy in the spleen with a drum stick when he was taking the stuff or something? And, when you did lose everything, how did you complete the tour?

DEREK:
Some guys in Detroit were fussin' with the locks on the van door parked behind the club. Rotten neighbourhood… guys standing round flaming oil drums and all that…. and folks from the club came out and chased 'em away. In SF when they lossed stuff. I wasn't with them that tour. It was the first one to SF [late 80's], dunno what they did.

SEAN:
How was Reid's art?

DEREK:
http://www.openstudio.on.ca/galleries/r_diamo.htm

SEAN:
How do you like their music compared to others? Do you listen to their records very much? How did you like their other work? Like Phono-Comb and such…

DEREK:
Apples and oranges, but all fruit. I still listen to them. I LOVED Phono-Comb and thought when they debuted it was going to be the band that pushed them to the top. Too bad not. Their music drew the best from the past combined with a sound that was new and fresh. Instrumental music doesn't pull in as many listeners… personally I rarely listen to lyrics and prefer the absence.

SEAN:
What was Reid's book about, any way I can get a hold of it?

DEREK:
In fact, there's a possibility "it", the book, might come out but a better possibility that a biography on Reid the writer and artist will come out one day.

His original book he wrote on the road was about what he saw with snippits of conversations he had. He did an art show with cereal boxes at Mercer Union in Toronto [I sent you the link to it many moons ago] which contained large bits of text he'd written replacing the text on the cereal boxes. From afar they looked like an average labelled box, up close all the text was changed to his.

SEAN:
Remember any good jokes the S Men pulled while on tour?

DEREK:
Reid pulled off as many jokes as he could muster, most were on me. I was a little naive thinking "why would he want to lie to me" but I guess cuz it was funny. In retrospect it was, but at the time I thought it was the truth and found myself passing it on the others who thought I was nuts. The big one being the Dairy Queen story that they put anti-vomit solution in their products so they can sell all the dairy stuff past-due. I still can't believe I fell for that AND told everyone I knew.